Apr 26 2009
Plot elements that cannot be added lightly
Here are several plot elements that will really affect the target audience and/or mood of your story. Please do not include these elements unless they are so important to the work that you’d feel comfortable mentioning them on the back-cover.
1. Please do not include rape or drug use unless you want to sell the work as very dark, gritty and/or dystopian. These elements are extremely mature and will have an enormous effect on the mood of the work as a whole.
2. Real-world religious elements, particularly sermonizing, tend to have a major impact on the target audience. Most readers are not interested in overtly religious stories and publishers want to make sure that the story is aimed at the right audience. So please be careful: if your story has real-world religious elements, it may be marketed and sold alongside religious fiction like the Left Behind series.
3. Stories with gay characters tend to feel like gay fiction. Please do not go down this road unless you’d like to sell your book as gay fiction. That will majorly affect who sees the book and immediately passes on it. For example, US bookstores will probably carry your title in the gay/lesbian shelf.
4. If you want to go on philosophical or political tangents, advertise that upfront. There are publishers and readers that will read either, but you need to target them carefully.
5. Readers tend to typecast superhero novels* as action stories for kids. If your superhero novel isn’t 100% action (like a romance, an action-comedy, a psychological thriller, etc), make that clear. Also, please try to be especially careful with age cues. If your story is aimed at readers 18-30, make sure that your backcover blurb is clearly aimed at older readers.
*This is generally less of a problem for superhero comic books. Anyone that has been in a comic book store knows that most comic books aren’t written for kids. However, if you’re writing a superhero comic book, it’s still very important to showcase your genre(s) as much as possible. The default genre for a comic book is action, so that’s what readers will assume unless you tell them otherwise.
6. Talking animals generally have little appeal to readers that are older than the Bugs Bunny crowd. There are exceptions, like Calvin and Hobbes and the Narnia books, but they are exceedingly rare. I would recommend being very careful if you are interested in writing a book about talking animals for older readers. Publishers and older readers are likely to get creepy vibes from such a book. (“Wait, is this one of those books?”) If you are even considering this, I would recommend coming up with some really good reasons why your story needs talking animals rather than humans. If you do not provide such a reason, the editor will fill in the blanks on his own. “He wants to use talking animals because he has psychological problems.” Needless to say, a rejection letter is rarely far behind.
What do you think? Would you like to suggest any others?
Interesting, number 6 to me is written in stone…I can’t stand talking animals. Most of the other points are controversial subjects that I have no problems with — as long as they are well-executed and relevant.
Drugs are one of those things that most people don’t have a grasp of. Sounds crazy that it’s common for some kids get high on a regular basis. That’s fact, not fiction.
Overall, if you are confident that you can pull of a controversial/taboo subject, go for it. Just make sure you have the balls to back yourself up if you don’t pull it off.
After all, a controversial subject = extra/free publicity.
I agree with your assessment. I think it’s fairly easy to find publishers that will work with extremely mature elements (rape and drug addiction), religious sermonizing, homosexuality, philosophical or political pieces, or superhero novels for adults. In fact, at least two of them (religious fiction and gay fiction) have established their own niche with a preset audience, specialized publishers, etc.
As for talking animals… unless you’re writing for kids, it’s probably not gonna happen. Publishers won’t take it, bookstores won’t carry it, and readers won’t buy it. It’s a trifecta of unreadability. Unless you have a really good reason, the project will probably seem rather creepy.
“Most of the other points are controversial subjects that I have no problems with — as long as they are well-executed and relevant… also, a controversial subject = extra/free publicity.” Hmm. I agree that relevance is critical. For example, political views would probably fit into a political thriller pretty smoothly but would have seemed grossly out of place in a book like Harry Potter. I wouldn’t recommend thinking of this in terms of publicity, though. That might lead you to try putting a controversial element somewhere it doesn’t belong.
This might just be a cultural difference, but I wouldn’t consider homosexuality a mature subject. I agree, it would be a lot harder to sell for young children but I have seen successful books aimed at readers as young as twelve dealing with homosexuality. One example would be the CHERUB books which has an important side character, Kyle, come out in the second book. This forms a side plot that spans about four books as James tries to deal with his homophobia and friendship with Kyle. An example in comics would be the Young Avengers, who have Wiccan and Hulkling as a homosexual couple from the start.
Basically, I wouldn’t rule out homosexuality as a theme for a novel or comic that was aimed at anyone over eleven or so, but definitely don’t include it for the sake of it. At least in the UK, I don’t believe it would be a deal breaker for many publishers as long as it was tasteful and not a derogatory line up of stereotypes, but I imagine there might be a bit more resistance in the USA. I don’t mean to offend anyone.
Hmm.
The only one I have a doubt about is the drug use. I see how normal drug use is mature and whatnot, but… I have a sideplot in one of my books that involves a sort of drug.
Basically, my telepathic/precognitive character is on her own for a while, and in order to pull her own weight and be able to do her job without a chance of screwing up or being too weak (she’s pretty strong, but she’s used to being on a team, and she’s a perfectionist), she gets ahold of a steroid-like drug. It makes her stronger, faster, but starts to give her precog visions that don’t end up happening. (So they amount to more like hallucinations that she thinks are going to happen.)
It’s not going to be a real drug, and it’s not going to be the whole shooting-up-in-an-alley scene, so will I be able to use it without it taking things to a mature level?
I think it all comes down to context and how you present it. There will always be those that love and those that hate.
Here’s a random example; I find Twilight more offensive than American Psycho. Heck, more offensive than anything by Chuck Palahniuk or Brett Easton Ellis. Those guys are known for their offensive, controversial and vulgar subjects and themes….and people love it. (I know I do)
A pet peeve of mine is when a novel/comic is adapted into a movie and they water it down so much it becomes ridiculous. Obviously a lot comes down to money and a widespread target audience, but hopefully one day they’ll learn to rely more on story instead of reputation. Comic book adaptions are notorious for this.
At one point, a Preacher TV show was planned. That would have been horribley watered down in order to get anywhere near a TV station. Thank god it fell through.
Yea very true Mr. Brit, hopefully John August can work some magic with the script. It’s a good time to do so, so I have high hopes that Preacher will be somewhat faithful to the comic…otherwise it will be an epic fail.
Thank god I’ve heard Kick-Ass is keeping its adult theme.
On a barely related note, imagine if they made a film of ‘The Boys’ with Simon Pegg as Wee Hughie. That would let me die happy
Mr. Brit I don’t know about the UK but in the USA most 12-17 year olds treat gayness as ‘funny’ and/or ‘something to be avoided’, and I don’t think they would take gay fiction very seriously.
What I find funny about 12 – 17 year old dudes is the fact that a lot of them act gayer than actual gay guys. You see it all the time, a hug here, a turkey slap there, a slap on the ass from time to time and oh, who could forget the wrestling, wedgies and pulling down someones pants. All this when they’re not even drunk… but the rules remain the same, as long as both the guys are straight it’s considered funny and not gay at all. Then things get extremely weird and awkward when you find out that someone is actually gay. I’ve had 3 friends who “came out” in my last year of high school.
What people need to learn is gayness isn’t that big of a deal. If you tell a guy that 2 chicks are making out you’ll get cheers, but if you say that 2 dudes are making out all you’ll get is ewwwwww.
I’m so over racism, discrimination, religion, etc in the real world.
My worst reading experience ever was in a writing class where every student had to write 3 stories of 25-50 pages. For his first story, one author did 40 pages about a Gary Stu whose only two life experiences were 1) being gay and 2) being persecuted for being gay. The second story was even worse. It was another 40 pages of that, but with a female protagonist.
When our workshop discussed those pieces, our comments were fairly humorous.
REVIEWER 1: I feel like this was really similar to your last story. In particular, I noticed that the climax of both stories was trying to take a gay boyfriend or girlfriend to prom.
REVIEWER 2: Maybe you should try mixing things up a bit more.
AUTHOR: Nah, this is totally different. It’s a lesbian prom story.
B. MAC: I swear on my life, if you try another 40 pages of this, my final story will be 50 pages about C. Mack, a political science student that gets the girls and saves the world by pondering about postmodern Hobbesian counterinflationary policy.
(“Oh, C. Mack! Your data models are positively orgasmic!” “Yeah, babe. My hotness is statistically significant.”)
I agree soundly with 2. Hearing a character spout verses every other balloon or sentence is irritating. Noone should expect YA readers to pick up a book/comic-book like that. That’s one thing I’m working to avoid in my stories.
Hmmm…Does an animal shapeshifter count as a talking animal (since Jazz can still be understood by humans in her animal form).
- Wings
I think you’re completely fine on the creepiness level, Wings. It might seem a bit cheesy, though– for example, Sky High had a funny joke about how hard it is to have a dignified conversation with a guinea pig. But it’s worked before… Sabrina the Teenage Witch had a hilarious talking cat, for example.
Then I will do it. It’s kind of important for Jazz’s animal form to talk simply because it keeps Ian from finding out who she is. Therefore, he hasn’t got a clue who the talking boa constrictor/black fox/hawk is (which helps him learn not to judge people based on appearance. Look how Heather turned out).
- Wings
About number three… Hero, a novel by Perry Moore, is sold right beside Twilight at every bookstore I go to. Yes, they’re both teen series but they’re completely different. We all know Twilight is an overly cliched series that has grasped boyless girls who have to now find their Edward. Hero is about a boy with superpowers. He can heal people. He’s also gay and living in a homophobic town. Yes, it’s a highly cliched novel but my point is, not all gay fiction is sold by gay (homosexual, not “uncool” or-in this case- overly cliched) fiction.
Hero– and probably The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay– are probably treated differently than most books about gay characters because they are bestsellers. However, the overwhelming majority of books about gay protagonists get relegated to a part of the store that doesn’t see very much traffic.
I think it’s really too bad that (almost) all stories that have gay characters seem to be clichéd coming out stories. I hadn’t thought about the marketability of stories with gay characters being a factor in that before. It’s interesting. Do you think that it’s because stories with gay characters all tend to get shoved into the gay fiction section that there are hardly any stories with gay characters that are about other things that being gay?
The experience in your class sounds awful! Yet hilarious. I hate prom persecution stories.
“Do you think that it’s because stories with gay characters all tend to get shoved into the gay fiction section that there are hardly any stories with gay characters that are about other things than being gay?”
I think the single most important reason is that the typical American reader tends to equate gay characters with “gay story” with “I don’t want to read this*.” Let’s say you were interested in doing a detective story about a detective that happened to be gay. I think it’d be a hard sell because the gayness would scare away a lot more detective readers than it would attract.
In general, I think it would be very difficult to write a story about gay characters that isn’t about their gayness; if the story weren’t about gayness, then the publisher would push you to axe the gay characters. “Let’s not broach a hard-to-market topic unless we have to, okay?”
*To some extent, I suspect that many secular readers have a similar reaction to religious fiction like the Left Behind series.
Tricia in my story binges, and a subplot is that Hardy’s trying to get her stop, but later on in the series, she suffers a heavy blow, and temporarily leaves them for a while, and when they find her, they find out that she has become bulimic. Do you think that’s okay, or should I axe it? I really like the idea, but is it too controversial?
Hmm. What’s the connection between Tricia’s bulimia and the rest of the plot?
Something big happens in book 5, and she leaves Hardy and Riley for a while, and in book 6, when Belinda’s deliberating her morality, she comes across a passed out Tricia, and she helps her, and informs Riley and Hardy, who grudgingly accept she isn’t all bad, and she decides on her morality as well.
Or should I axe it?
“I think it would be very difficult to write a story about gay characters that isn’t about their gayness”.
Unless of course, you pull a JK Rowling and only mention outside of the books that the character is gay, or make them ambiguously gay, or a combination.
Character 1: “So, how are things with Adrian?”
Character 2: “We’re moving in together. My parents don’t completely approve, but they’re supportive.”
Character 1: “That’s good. Just to think, you hated eachother in primary school, and now you’re a couple.”
Character 2: “Yeah, Adrian used to love getting me into trouble.”
Then, on the website, post:
“By the way, Adrian is a guy.”
Oops, I forgot to add that Character 2 is also a guy. But you get my meaning.
Yogi, I recommend focusing on the things that are most relevant to book 1 first. Book five is probably at least a decade away. The good news is that, after you’ve gotten published, you can ask your editor what he thinks.
“Book five is probably at least a decade away”.
I think it would be nice to publish a book every year or so, whether as part of a series or seperate work. I have over twenty five ideas now, and only a couple are series-worthy. If I were to publish one a year from now, I’d be set for ideas until I’m in my forties. Unfortunately not all my ideas will likely make the cut, and there’s no way I’d be able to work that fast. Plus they’re plotted for different mediums, like books or manga, so that would affect releases.
I don’t know, RW. In your case, I would have assumed that Adrian is a gay male because Adrian isn’t really much of a girl’s name, is it? For example, Think Baby Names lists it as just a guy’s name.
However, let’s say for the sake of argument that you renamed Adrian as something that didn’t even lean towards one gender, like Avery or Jessie. I think that would still be problematic because it might feel like the book treats gay men as interchangeable with straight women. My best guess is that most gays would object to that. If, as I suspect, gays and bisexuals make up most of the audience for gay fiction, then irking them with a gay character would probably be unwise.
Also, the people that want gay fiction would probably expect that the author have the courage of his convictions to actually specify that the character in question is a gay male rather than leave it ambiguous. Also, if the relationship in question matters at all the to the story, I don’t think you could keep it ambiguous for long. If it doesn’t matter at all to the story, I don’t think that it would interest gay fiction readers very much. They can read gay fiction that is definitely about gay characters. Likewise, straight readers can read fiction that is definitely about straight characters. I think that an in-the-middle approach leaves you with a half-hearted appeal to both straight and gay readers.
I used to know three girls called Adrian. Haha, they all had different nicknames. Likewise, I know/knew three Camerons, two Jordans, five Michaels, four Daniels, and three Lukes. Hence Lucky, Dan, Mickey, Cam, Ronnie etc
But what about the beginning? :S
I’ve been working on my novel about wolves for quite a while, and I really hope to get it published. I guess the only reason it’s about talking wolves is because I’m fascinated by them. . . Should I just ditch the idea and try something else, or are there any ways of making the idea of talking animals less creepy and more likely to sell?
Personally, I think that going with something else will probably be easier to publish and sell. (For example, you could replace a pack of wolves with a human tribe). However, if you’re really committed to the wolf concept…
You can avoid most of the potential creepiness by eliminating any hint of romance. (Talking animals in romantic situations will probably make an editor think it’s about furries).
I would recommend coming up with a more compelling reason that this book needs talking wolves than authorial fascination. I think that the costs will be high, so your explanation should make it clear that the benefits are high.
Here are some of the costs that a publisher will probably consider:
–Historically, teens have not been very receptive to these sorts of stories. Series like Redwall, Poppy, Swordbird, etc. have not performed notably well among teenagers. Series with talking animals that have performed well among teenagers– like Calvin & Hobbes and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles– tend to be comical and/or off-the-wall.
–The characters will probably be less relatable. It’s very rare for books to use nonhumans as main characters (let alone all the main characters).
–Using wolves rather than humans would make it much harder to use some plot angles. For example, romance. Anything remotely sexual. Varied combat. Etc.
Hmm. . . I think I might as well not have it published, then. I’m already committed to finishing it, because my friends have read some of what I’ve written so far and will be disappointed if I don’t. There is another story I’ve been working on in case this didn’t work out, so I think I’ll just work on that for now. Thanks for the advice.
Awww … I loved Redwall. So cute! And the TV series or whatever drew the mice and all the other animals just as I’d pictured them and true to the style as they were portrayed on some of the covers.
Does it need to be in the future? Do they need to talk? You could tell the story, by all accounts within the real world as it stood just a few decades ago without many alterations.
You wouldn’t be able to have dialogue as such, but wolves and many canids are capable of extensive non-language based communication. You could carry the core names and titles for the organizations, but simply use the real world to tell it. It’s been a while since I studied wolf habits extensively, but I recall a history of Gray Wolf packs adopting unrelated and formally unknown members as pack members without much issue.
Don’t tell a story about furry four legged people, tell a story about wolves being wolves in the real world, but with a fictional twist to keep it engaging, entertaining and captivating.
The alpha wolf and the beta wolf at the head of the pack, the demonic ones as you called them, could be affected by a non-contagious disease, perhaps a fictitious one, or a prion-borne genetic ailment caused by in-breeding. You’d have to research it very thoroughly but you’d need to do that as it is planned now.
A great example of what I’m talking about would be Raptor Red by a brilliant paleontologist named Robert Bakker, and it’s really a fantastic book.
Of course, this is just a suggestion.
That’s a really interesting idea, LM, but a story where the main characters can’t talk might be a bit too experimental for a first-time author.
That is an interesting idea, but as I’m not very experienced, it would be a bit too experimental, as B.Mac said. I’ll definitely keep it in mind, though. Thank you.
so if i wanted to write a dark/gritty novel, one with serious emotions, not just an angst filled mess, would i find advice here?
I believe you could, although off the top of my head I can’t think of anyone who specializes in that particular genre. Good luck.
- Wings
I think you’d find advice that is applicable in the index. For example, your story’s going to need interesting characters whether it’s a dark/gritty drama or not, right? However, I don’t think I have anything specifically about writing dark/gritty stories at the moment.
…
Incidentally, my publisher does work with several stories in this area.
Def, I wouldn’t call myself an expert on dark-gritty material, but I have come into contact with it. (Um, I’m a history nerd and one of my areas of particular interest is WW2, including some of the more horrific aspects, like Auschwitz. I think that sort of qualifies for “dark”.)
Are you referring to the story about Josh, or something else?
Kuro, have you read Watership Down? Admittedly, it’s rabbits and not wolves, but rabbits are surprisingly fierce in this book.
But, they have their own legends, and their behavior is rabbit behavior, not just furry human behavior, and they have a way of thinking of things that is definitely not human. The way the story is put together might help you with yours.
no, the one about josh is almost done, except for my sequal delema, i havent actually gotten anything solid, so i’ll post when i can start work on it.
So, for my darker drama/action novel, i’ve come up with this:
The story would open with a prologue about a sixteen year-old boy named Daren, who lives in a dingy, crime riddent city (think Gotham City). Daren’s one goal is to survive long enough to finish high school and then blow town, as no one there really cares about him. His father left the family before Daren was born, and his mother’s latest boyfriend is a strong arm for the local mob boss. Daren is also involved with the mob, running packages and cash wherever he’s told. His only real friends in this screwed up world are Kylie, his neighbor, Who’s been his friend since preschool, and Brian, who is the son of the mob boss that runs the town.
One day, when he is dropping off cash at Brian’s family estate, Daren overhears Brian’s father make an offer to Kylie’s Parents. The deal is that he will pay them a large sum of money to give up gardianship of their daughter, so he can become her foster father. The reason behind this is that Brian likes Kylie, and his father thinks that putting them in the same house will get something going (Brian is obviously spoiled).
After hearing all of this, Daren does some snooping around, and finds that Brian’s father makes his money by trafficing in human slaves, especially teenage girls. Daren tries to tell the cops, but they are under the Mob’s control, and tell Brian’s father about it. Daren is then given a choice, he can either get in his car and leave town, and everything else he’s ever know, or stay and witness whats left of his family get killed by the mob. Daren chooses to run, seeing as he always knew he’d leave sooner or later, says good-bye to Kylie, and drives off.
About a week later, Daren is picked up in a neighboring town as a runaway, and is supposed to be sent back to his parents. before they can get an officer to take him back, a government agent shows up, claiming that Daren is know in his custody. After leaving the police station, the agent expalins that he works for a special office that conducts highly classified black ops missions, and that Daren has qualified to take place in the selection process. The office uses young adults for agents because they can be easily trained and are able to pose as students, giving them access to social circles that older operatives dont have. Seeing that if he goes back home Daren is as good as dead, he agrees to participate.
The book would then shift forward 3 years, to when Daren is out of training, and actually the senior member of his team, which consists of five 19 year-olds. With his contract near expiration, and a good sum of money in the bank, Daren is told that he only has one more mission left to complete, however, it will prove to be his most challenging.
Daren’s final mission is to return to his hometown and eliminate the mob presence in the town. Since the use of the town as a slave market has finally been exposed, the government feels the need to end it. Daren has been selected for this mission because he has the most familiarity with the area, and they need their best agent to handel it.
Most of the conflict in this novel will stem from his encounters with the mob and their thugs, however i also want him to be conflicted about telling his mother who he is, since she has no clue he’s even alive, and about seeing Kylie, who is now a topless dancer at the club where Brians father brokers his deals.
Also, i want Daren to use a different name when he goes back, but i dont know if that’s a good idea, or how to go about writting it, so i would appreciate some input.
I know it’s corny, but instead of using different names you could give him a code-name…but that doesn’t really work out in school. Perhaps just change his last name…
The setting/backstory sounds good, but I’d recommend working on the inciting event more. Right now, it hinges on Daren (rather than Kylie or her parents) going to the cops. One alternative that might work a bit more smoothly than Kylie’s parents selling her to a mob boss would be the mob boss telling Kylie that he’s gonna kill her parents if she doesn’t work at his club. Kylie and her parents don’t say anything because they all think they’ll be killed otherwise. Maybe the parents don’t even know where she’s working.
The mob boss picks Kylie for a stripping job because his son’s got a thing for her. One alternative would be that he picks Kylie because Kylie’s parents are somehow indebted to him. (Maybe they actually owe him money, or just some sort of favor).
I think Daren’s day job (money-running) is a very interesting take on the courier/pizza boy concept. Much more interesting than a pizza boy.
“Daren is then given a choice, he can either get in his car and leave town, and everything else he’s ever know, or stay and witness whats left of his family get killed by the mob.” When you say “Daren is given a choice,” do you mean that the mob actually lets him leave? Why would it do so? What would it have to gain from having a potential witness (that can tie the boss to child prostitution and money-running) walk away alive? One alternative, and maybe one that makes him seem a bit more impressive, would be that the mob attempts to kill him but he escapes. That sort of leaves open the question of why they don’t kill the family, but maybe they leave the family alive in the hopes that he will eventually try to return home (only to get killed).
At the moment, it seems like the government agent doesn’t know who Daren is. I feel that it’s sort of contrived that Daren just happens to get picked up off the street at this point in the story. I think it would be more dramatic and smooth if he did know who Daren is. Also, I think that it would make more sense that he picks Daren BECAUSE he knows who Daren is. For example…
–Daren survived the mob, so he’s obviously at least somewhat street-savvy and competent.
–Daren doesn’t fit the profile of a typical cop. He’ll fit into undercover work a lot more than a 20+, college-educated white guy.
–Daren is an ex-money-runner that knows a lot about how crime works and how criminals avoid the police. (For more details on that, I would recommend watching The Wire, even though the first few episodes are slow).
–Morally speaking, Daren seems a lot less compromised than most criminals. For one thing, he turned on the mob and tried to save his friend.
I think there are some excellent reasons to take on Daren for undercover work, better than what seems to be just randomly grabbing a runaway 16 year old off the street. Also, this agent sounds pretty elite, so it’d make sense that he has the capability to find out who Daren is and why he’s running.
Daren sounds pretty interesting. His relationship with the agent sounds pretty interesting. I can only speak for myself, but I’m a bit more hesitant about Daren suddenly turning into an experienced cop (and team leader) because I don’t think he’s the same character that readers will fall in love with at the start. (For one thing, an elite operative/squad leader strikes me as significantly less relatable than a mob courier). At the very least, I would recommend showing us one of his early missions so we can see him getting a hang of the job.
I think it would totally make sense for Daren to use a fictitious name. It’ll reduce the chance that somebody recognizes him as that guy that tried turning on the mob. For a slightly thematic twist, you might have him assume the name of an innocent bystander that got killed in a mob hit-and-run. (For a strongly thematic twist, maybe somebody innocent that got killed by a shot meant for Darren—maybe when Daren was originally fleeing the city). Or you could just have him make up a generic name, something that blends in with the neighborhood.
Why is eliminating the mob presence his final mission? Is he leaving the job? Why? What else is he hoping to do with his life? (I mean, umm, compared to being a high school dropout, being a SWAT officer does have its perks).
Thanks B. Mac, that was a lot of help.
to start off, the thing with Kylie working at the club is definately more interesting and i will try to develop that scene and work it into the story, especially the part about being edited to the mob. The problem with this though, is she is the same age as Daren, and an underage girl in a club like that might not go over well with readers. At the very least, I will work it in as the reason she works there when Daren comes back.
I thought about the idea of having the mob try to have Daren killed, but i kept having trouble coming up with a scenario that allows a 16 year-old boy out smart a couple of mafia hit men (one of my biggest pet peeves is having the hero escape because the thugs are incompetent), so if you could suggest some ideas I’d be more than happy to work on it.
For the Daren’s selection for the program, the agent will definately know Daren’s back ground. Part of the reason he chooses Daren is he knows that if Daren goes home he is dead, so he has an incentive to agree. Also, the fact that he is a runaway does factor into his selection. I want the specific agency to come across more as a government black ops program, using some more controversial methods to do his job (like killing mob thugs or settign up the more powerful members of the organization) and in black ops, if you are caught the government denys you work for them, and that is easy to do with Daren because his family ties are strained to the point where his mother can’t go looking for him without the mob finding out. The black ops scenario also allows for confrontation with the police and opens up some intersting plot points.
i do want to devolpe the relationship between Daren and the agent that recruits him, partially because he gives Daren the training and the opening to go back home and help the people that he’s seen suffer when he was younger. As for having him become an elite agent, i’m leaning against that, as well as the team concept. The program recurits many teenagers, but they go throungh an entrace exam that selects only the best of them, so that will help keep Daren from being a chosen one, and the reason he is the best of the agents selected is because over the next three years the agents either die, or their contract ends and they go on to do other things, which does include other jobs in the agency. However, I do not intend to imply that Daren is a teenage James Bond, though his one major skill is that he is very accurate with the firearms he uses, and he can pick locks, other than that he is just a street smart kid that has to think on his feet to overcome his problems.
As far as Daren being on his last mission, the teens are recruited to run a set number of operations after training, Daren has come to the end of his contract, and intially wants to stay as an active agent. They are requried to attend classes while they arent on missions, so Daren isn’t entirely uneducated (not to mention he is paid well for his work), and could find other things to do, but you just don’t stop killing people and getting shot at and settle into normal life, almost everyone can figure that out, so he is apprehensive to leave.
I may keep this the same throughout the novel, but im toying about starting up a relationship between Daren and Kylie when he goes back home, which creates a conflict of intrest and makes his mission harder, if I go this route, I will gradually lean him towards becoming a civillian and living with kylie. i originally wanted to include a scene in which the two of them have sex, or at least imply that they did, and then later reveal that she is pregnant, and that he is going to be a father, this would take his objective form completing his mission to making sure that his love intrest and child survive untill he is finished (especially since Brian is still obsessed with Kylie). however this is purely speculation and it may stay that
If I was to use another name for when Daren goes back to do his mission, how would i do the dialouge?
“The problem with this though, is she is the same age as Daren, and an underage girl in a club like that might not go over well with readers.” Agreed. In lieu of having her work as a stripper, you might have her do something dangerous but not as creepy, like forcing her to run drugs or act as a lookout for a stickup crew. (I think running drugs is still pretty mature, but not in Garth Ennis territory).
(Plus, maybe Daren gets clipped by a car or something– enough to raise the stakes and hurt him a bit but probably not enough to do any major damage).
“I thought about the idea of having the mob try to have Daren killed, but i kept having trouble coming up with a scenario that allows a 16 year-old boy out smart a couple of mafia hit men (one of my biggest pet peeves is having the hero escape because the thugs are incompetent), so if you could suggest some ideas I’d be more than happy to work on it.” Okay. Here are a few scenarios.
If he’s unusually perceptive… maybe the hitmen are in his apartment, waiting for him. He’s good with lockpicking, right? So maybe he notices that the lock has been tampered with or sees some other sign of forced entry and correctly guesses that entering would be a very bad move. (If you’d like to add a bit of action, they might spot him anyway from the window and try to shoot him but fail).
If he’s unusually athletic, he might lose the hitmen in a running chase scene. Depending on his level of gutsiness, you might him try something crazy like running through lanes of traffic. You don’t need to make the hitmen horrible marksmen to explain how they miss a kid wildly running through traffic.
If he’s unusually good at noticing things about people, he might pick up a cue from somebody else that something is not right. For example, a public space may be quieter than usual because the mob has cleared out potential witnesses. Or maybe somebody looks unusually tense (because there is a hitman hiding in the room with them).
He’s probably very good at knowing when he’s being followed, given that he’s a successful money-runner. So he might realize that he’s being followed and disappear around a corner so that he can ambush them with a crude weapon like his keys or a baseball bat or anything else he has with him. After surprising them, he runs off.
Some other sketchy solutions that come to mind include unusual people skills (possibly with Brian, or maybe using Brian as a human shield knowing that the mob won’t shoot at him). Unusual driving skills (they try to kill him while he’s stopped at an intersection and he manages to escape).
“you just don’t stop killing people and getting shot at and settle into normal life.” I like that. One thing that annoys me about James Bond (especially before the new Casino Royale) is that he is ALWAYS throwing out glib jokes and horrible puns, sometimes moments after killing somebody.
With the dialogue, you could have the character introduce himself as his fake name while having the narrator refer to him by his real name (“I’m John,” Darren said). Readers will understand why he’s using a fake name, so this deception probably won’t confuse them.
I think that Kylie is probably the best way to explain why he decides to leave the force and end the story. He gets the money and then the honey.
Thanks again, this site is amazing.
Thanks.
and i think the whole concept of Bond jokes can be rationalized as a way of disconnecting him from his job.
one last thing, im absolutely terrible when it comes to naming things, and i have no clue what to name my city. i tend to prefer fictitious locations because they are easier to control and manipulate, but i cant come up with the name. any sggestions would be great
I like starting with a syllable that has the right sound and then building on from there. For example, this city sounds kind of messed up, so maybe something like Bent or Pack or Pax or Mar would work for the first syllable.
Then, to finish it off, you might use something like don, ion, ola, burn, dere, ville, port, er, burg, boro, rst, oma, iet or whatever suits you. For example, Benton or Marburn or Packola or whatever.
I personally like Paxburg and Marport, using B. Mac’s suggestions. Perhaps Marton.
Yeesh, I still need a name for Darken’s city. I mean, I can’t just keep referring to it as “____” forever.
Let’s see…It’s a typical superhero city, leaning more towards Gotham-esque than Metropolis. I’d rather have one word rather than something like New ___.
The original name was New Hope. It turns out that New Hope exists. Who knew?
- Wings
for my revamped beging, i was thiking of having kylie’s parent’s run guns for the mob, but they get caught and the ATF confinscates the shipment, then, to settle their debt, brians father threatens to take kylie from them, figuring she can run drugs untill she’s 18 and then she will be a great addition to his club.
By talking animals, do you mean a whole story about talking animals, or a few animals in an otherwise anthropocentric story that talk? I’ve got a talking lizard in one my stories, but he isn’t technically a lizard. He’s part of a shapeshifting species that goes from a humanoid form to a lizard form, though this character happens to be trapped in that lizard form.
If you’re pretty confident that the story won’t feel like a sexual fetish, I think you’re fine. I doubt it would raise such creepiness issues unless there’s any romance. (Rated-G romance like Disney-style hand-holding MAY work, but I’d err on the side of caution here).
However, even assuming there are no creepiness issues, I think it might cause relatability issues for adult readers. On the plus side, it sounds like this is a fairly minor character, so hopefully it won’t matter too much if he’s not very relatable.
Good luck!
“In general, I think it would be very difficult to write a story about gay characters that isn’t about their gayness”
All of my novels have a gay character, more or less. It’s not that difficult to write a story without making a big deal out of it, it’s kind of just a fact of life.
Some of the reasons Twisted Fantasy is not one of my main projects are (a) my fear that it will be immediately stereotyped as a gay coming-of-age story and shelved next to Hero by Perry Moore* (b) the fact that I think it would probably alienate more readers then draw them in** and (c) the genre is a difficult one to sell***.
That being said, I honestly hope that the world is not yet so close-minded that people would stop reading The Space Between Light and Darkness because one of the viewpoint characters is gay. Sadly, I know several people who would do this****.
- Wings
* No offense to Hero. I liked Hero.
** My gamer audience is probably male-dominated. I don’t think there’s anything I can do to fix this, as I am friends with many male gamers with yaoi phobia (short of making Sky and Zel women, despite the fact that this change would probably widen the audience).
*** Okay, it’s not a sci-fi/fantasy, but it looks that way at first glance. It’s more of a sci-fi/action/adventure/gaming/humor/romance conglomerate which looks like sci-fi/fantasy, but that’s not much better.
****The most prominent of whom would probably attempt to exorcise both the book and me, then proclaim that I’m going straight to hell when I die. No exaggeration.
“That being said, I honestly hope that the world is not yet so close-minded that people would stop reading The Space Between Light and Darkness because one of the viewpoint characters is gay. Sadly, I know several people who would do this.” For sure. It’s hard enough to sell books where the main character is of the other gender than the reader.* I am virtually positive that reader bias would be stronger against gays.
I put down Kavalier & Clay after the gay oral rape scene. (Admittedly, far more because of the rape than the gayness, but I was already surly after Chabon sprung the gayness on me. Oh God that sounds so wrong).
*Two possible reasons that come to mind are relatability and the preconception that a female character means a romance-heavy plot or a male character means an action-heavy plot. (I can’t remember the last time I’ve read a female lead that didn’t get romantically involved with somebody).
“The most prominent of whom would probably attempt to exorcise both the book and me, then proclaim that I’m going straight to hell when I die. No exaggeration.”
Innovative thinking comes at it’s cost. I’ve been called a “devil worshipper” more than once for some of my more occult drawings and I’ve gotten quite a few “creeps” from my aliens. I just take it all in stride. Art is art. Besides, I love my aliens!
One of my brothers and sister-in-law separately received death threats on different campuses over abortion, but my life hasn’t been that eventful. I do have a cyberstalker, but I have not yet discovered any sort of content that would make him drop my work and never return.
…
“Innovative thinking comes at its cost.” Yeah. I think the publishing industry is risk-averse because profit margins are low.
I figure that if writing gay characters will send me to hell, a good portion of the Internet is going down with me. I won’t be alone when I burn. XD
- Wings
I would not recommend taking ethical cues from the Internet.
But I understand your point.
The Internet may be many things, but you have to admit it’s entertaining. Hell will not be a boring place by any means.
- Wings