Comments on: Why Secret Origins are Usually Awful

By: HatiChantheWolfHog

HatiChantheWolfHog — Mon, 05 Sep 2011 07:03:02 +0000

Sometimes gradually revealed back story can be a good idea I hate it when everything is spelled out in the first volume.

Besides a good story is usually planned out before hand therefore the creator hints at the back-story in subtle ways such as symbolism in the art or hints in characterization.

There shouldn’t be any continuity errors because you’ve already mapped out all the twists and turns along the way.

By: Aine

Aine — Mon, 25 Apr 2011 03:38:06 +0000

Selene, a MC and dhampir in my story, is “secretly” Armand’s daughter (it’s not really something he’s hiding from her, he just hasn’t specifically told her) but in my story it explains WHY he’s there whether she’s at her hometown or out of state for college. And the whole prophecy that involves her and worldwide destruction further explains why he cares enough to follow her (though it wasn’t really following HER, just the same prophecy she inadvertantly follows) from one state to another and why she came to be in the first place.

It’s also less of a secret because she suspects there’s some sort of connection because she knows he killed her sister and wherever she goes he’s nearby. The only thing she can think of is that they’re related somehow. He killed her sister cause this other group of vampires opposes the whole end of the world scenario and were going to kill the half-blood responsible. Armand stepped into to “help” them, actually leading them to kill the wrong Hawthorne daughter.

This is also one of Selene’s main reasons for hunting demons, ghosts, vampires, other evil associated with the paranormal. That and mostly she just enjoys the fighting. It depends on the mood she’s in. ;D

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 09:11:38 +0000

Of these, the one I remember most clearly was Quirrell as a secret antagonist. I thought it was reasonably effective.

1) I don’t feel it was confusing. I feel this is usually more of a problem when the secret origin belongs to a major character, particularly a point of view protagonist.

2) I feel there’s a pretty good reason to hide this information. First, it helps set up the theme that Voldemort is able to subvert/corrupt people that otherwise seem more or less ordinary. (For example, Snape fooled Dumbledore). Second, because he’s an antagonist, there’s at least one excellent reason for Quirrell to hide this information from the protagonists. (And not just because “Hey, Harry, could you come over here so I could kill you?” would make for a pretty awkward conversation ).

3) Was it intriguing? Not significantly, I feel, but if you picked up on Quirrell’s weird vibe, you might be at least mildly interested to discover the reason.

4) I don’t feel it was contrived. Hogwarts holds at least three things highly interesting to Voldemort: the boy that survived him, the only wizard that worries him, and the item he needs to resurrect himself. So it makes a lot of sense to subvert a Hogwarts teacher.

5) I can’t identify any Quirrell-related continuity errors.

By: herojock

herojock — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 08:17:32 +0000

How well did you think JK Rowling handled her secret origins and character twists?Ron’s rat who was really Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black who was really Harry’s godfather, not a murderer and actually a hero. Professor Quirrell’ in book one was a harmless teacher only really harbouring the Voldemort (qualifies as a ‘demi-god’ I say) on the back off his head, a fact we only discover right at the end. Even the deathly hallows can be seen as a secret origin, like Harry’s cloak. Or do items not count?

By: Comicbookguy117

Comicbookguy117 — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 19:29:59 +0000

Well I’m sorry you went through that. But I imagine that everyone has horror stories from high school. Kids can be cruel. At that’s the point I’m wanting to make with my story. The main characters take their bully-given nicknames and use them as codenames in order to give them a different meaning. I wish I could’ve done this when I was in school. I guess that’s part of the inspiration for the story.

By: Wings

Wings — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 18:31:18 +0000

Among others, I have been known as Crazy Cat-Girl/Cat-Woman* (Usually punctuated with a “meeeoooww” from the name-caller. Scarily enough, people still do this when they see me. Even if they weren’t actually in my class when I attended). I’m more recently known as Orphan to the fourth graders, which is just depressing. I’m being namecalled at by kids who weren’t attending the school while I was there. Beyond the Impossible…

It wasn’t so much names with me…the odd physical thing (There was one boy who liked stepping on my feet as hard as he could to try and make me cry. He never succeeded. xD) was present, the usual image-related insults (The “Pilgrim Shoes” incident, I was insulted for being chubby and flat chested by the boys, the usual stuff), and nearly all of the girls in the class pretended I didn’t exist**.

So after years of being an ignored and pudgy bookworm, I hit a growth spurt, dove headfirst into writing, discovered video games and manga, and I transformed into a hat-collecting, TVTropes-addicted paragon of sarcasm. Hooray, happy ending!

- Wings

* Unfortunately, I did not know about the Awesome of a certain DC Catwoman at this time, so I couldn’t take it as a compliment.

**Unless we were working on a group project. I usually got fed up with my partner’s ineptitude and did the whole thing so that I’d at least get a good grade.

By: Comicbookguy117

Comicbookguy117 — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:20:02 +0000

“I think deeper characters are more believable and interesting because most people can’t be summed up in a single trait.” I completely agree B Mac. And my best story-creating quality is creating deep characters, so that won’t be a problem. I am aware that these characters will have more about them then what is seen in a single trait. The thing is though, that others don’t see those things. Everyone is judged on physical appearence. And these characters will take those judgemental names and turn them into something good by using them as their codenames. I believe this to be a very interesting and worthwhile idea. What do you all think?

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 04:35:42 +0000

Our school used academic tracking very aggressively, so I had very little contact with people that were substantially less nerdy than I was. (Most of my high school challenges were class-related rather than classmate-related). So my personal experiences here would probably not be very helpful for you, unless you’re looking for something like…
–B. Mac
–Most Likely to be an Abercrombie & Fitch Centerfold (class elections*)
–Geekzilla (affectionately)
–”a pathological underachiever” (by an economics teacher)
–Wonder Bread (I did well in a talent show by singing 1970s Soul Train songs like Ghetto Child and Rubberband Man)
–QB, rarely (Quiz Bowl slang for “Question-Block.” Only one person per team can try to answer a question, so guessing incorrectly screws your team).
–McFrenzy
–Manorexic (somewhat well-intentioned commentary on my notoriously bad eating habits)
–”you puppy-hating Nazi” (some sort of political disagreement, I think).

I got a waiver for gym, the class that probably would’ve been hardest for me. (Being on the Quiz Bowl squad somehow qualified me for a varsity waiver–YES!).

*And adults wonder why teens don’t have any faith in elections. That’s when mine ended.

“II was called things like fatso, butterball and fatboy. Doesn’t bother me now, but it did then.” If your character takes on a name like Fatso (or some other insult) as his super-identity, one potential concern would be that it’d be making him sound like a one-trait character and the trait probably isn’t that interesting. (If you had to list the ten most interesting things about you as a high school student, would your weight have made the top 5?) Even if the trait was semi-interesting (i.e. somehow related to the character’s personality or relevant to plot-significant choices), like Gothzilla, I feel like it might set up the character as a Goth caricature rather than, say, a character whose Gothiness is merely one part of a bigger picture.

I think deeper characters are more believable and interesting because most people can’t be summed up in a single trait. For example, I’ll be the first to admit I was (and am) a hardcore geek*, but I have interests, shortcomings and strengths that aren’t stereotypically geeky. Likewise, you certainly have interests besides your weight, unless you’re Kirstie Allie (who I’m convinced is under contract by Weight Watchers to mention NOTHING ELSE ever).

*I’ve spent 3000+ hours running a website about how to write superhero stories and have won NBA Jam tournaments. The only way I could add to my geekiness is to win a Star Trek costume competition. (But I’d sooner shoot myself).

By: The ReTARDISed Whovian

The ReTARDISed Whovian — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 04:31:43 +0000

I wasn’t really picked on in high school – I went to Catholic school and while I was/am dorky nobody really picked on me. I graduated last October, I’m not 18 just yet, so I have a rough idea of what today’s high schools tend to be like.

But I have been called things like “speccy four eyes” and “weeaboo” by my siblings when they are, for some reason, mad at me. I find that namecalling is generally very stupid and juvenile unless a physical threat is also present. Like:

“”Hey, loser!” yelled Bully. He strolled over and whacked the locker next to my head on both sides, trapping me. I tried to shrink away, but with him and his arms at the front and to my sides, and the row of lockers behind me, I was thoroughly boxed in.”

Most people can ignore namecalling but when there’s the danger of being hit, too, it makes it harder to deal with.

Hope I helped.

By: Comicbookguy117

Comicbookguy117 — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 03:46:05 +0000

Hey guys, I’ve got a question for any willing person. It’s kind of personal, but you don’t have to answer. Ok so I’m working on a story where there is a group of high school kids that form a group. The reason they form a group is that they are some of the most teased and otherwise harassed kids at school. They quickly discover that they all have powers and decide to rebel against how their tormentors make them feel by becoming superheroes. So my question is this…what names were you all called in high school? I have this idea that they use the names that they are called as their codenames. So I’d like to get as many opinions/names as possible. And because I don’t expect something this personal for nothing, I will tell you I was teased for being overweight so I was called things like fatso, butterball and fatboy. Doesn’t bother me now, but it did then. So I want people to connect with this story so I’m trying to make it as authentic as I can. So what was your nickname in high school? Remember you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 01:00:32 +0000

“Suppose a fact about the main character is known to the audience and to the side characters, but not to the main character? Is this a justifiable case of dramatic irony?” If you have more than one POV, I am highly confident this would work if one of the other POVs knows this information.

If your narration is limited to what the POV knows and the main character is the only POV, I think it’d be more tricky. In certain circumstances, you might be able to give readers enough evidence for readers to make an inference without the POV making the same inference. In this case, a mental lapse on the main character’s part may be helpful.

For example, let’s say a guy is at school and he sees a guy and a girl stepping out of a janitor’s closet. Most of your readers will be able to guess that the only plausible explanation for this is that they were making out or otherwise engaging in romance. But let’s say you didn’t want it to be immediately obvious to the POV that these two characters were romantically involved. You could do a conversation along these lines…

Main character: “Hey, John! Isn’t that a janitor’s closet?”
*The girl blushes.*
(Thinking quickly for a lie) *John shows the main character a bandaged arm.*
John: “I was looking for the first-aid kit.”

In context, I think most readers (particularly the ladies) will figure out that John was actually doing in there. At the same time, I don’t think that the lie is so completely obvious that the main character will come off as a total dumbass for not figuring it out right away.

I’m not sure if this technique would work for something as removed from the readers’ experience as someone being an ex-princess and/or ex-FBI agent, though. I think the clearest way to convey this information would be to move it into dialogue in a scene with a different POV character.

If the main character is the only POV, I think you could effectively hint at the outline of her past by giving her situations to subtly show off an impressive familiarity with things that most people wouldn’t know about (like being unusually useful/knowledgeable about guns or police procedures and upper-class etiquette), but I wouldn’t expect any readers to infer the particulars on their own.

By: Brett

Brett — Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:58:42 +0000

And my own question is, suppose a fact about the main character is known to the audience and to the side characters, but not to the main character? Is this a justifiable case of dramatic irony?

Example: In the beginning of the story, it’s established through dialogue that a character’s mother is an exiled princess/ex-special forces/ex-FBI agent, etc. but the main character doesn’t know about her past.

P.S.
Dear Admin, please bold the names of the addressees in my previous for me. I forgot that little detail.

By: Brett

Brett — Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:53:26 +0000

I HAVE RETURNED!

Now to answer your questions.

@Ekimmak: I haven’t heard of the game you’re referring to, but from what I can gather from your statement, I’m guessing that falls more into the category of “twist ending” than “secret origin.” A secret origin usually involves something established about the character’s past suddenly being turned on it’s head. The Most Triumphant Example of this would be “Oh by the way, the evil fascist we’ve been training you to kill is actually your father, and the girl you’ve been romancing happens to be your twin.” Secret origins have been done well, going back all the way to the story of Oedipus. But after Star Wars used this device, a ton of bad imitators cropped up, making this almost hopelessly cliche. So much so that there are more parodies than straight examples. The twist ending on the other hand, has not quite been tired out yet, so as long as it’s well handled, with good foreshadowing as you mentioned, it can work quite well.

@Ghost: A character journeying to find out who they are can make for a very compelling story, even award winning, depending (emphasis here) on how well it’s written and handled. A secret origin is usually only handled if it involves deceiving the audience, establishing something about their past and then suddenly revealing, “Whoops! I lied!”

@GaelicGirl: A relative or friend who is thought to be dead… hmmm… I’ve seen examples of that working, but from what I’ve seen, it works best in the case described above, when a character is journeying specifically to find out who they are and where they come from. For example, an adopted child going to search for her biological mother only to be told that she’s probably dead, and then finding out that she isn’t could make for an excellent story. Something like that shows a character’s perseverance, willpower, and determination to find the truth about themselves. Just as good could be the character journeying to find this person, only to find that they really ARE dead, but they were survived by a close friend or another relative who can tell the character what they were like. Both of those cases are dramatic, dynamic, interesting, and most importantly, have the character taking actions to move the plot forward. However, if a relative thought dead suddenly appears out of the nowhere to give a character helpful wisdom just so we can witness the character’s “But we thought you were dead!” moment, the audience is more likely to roll their collective eyes and sarcastically mumble, “What a twist.”

By: GaelicGirl

GaelicGirl — Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:39:56 +0000

What if a main character has a sibling who is supposed to be dead but isn’t? Is that an overused plotline or does it still have some degree of originality?

By: Ghost

Ghost — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 22:49:59 +0000

OK so I have a question about this topic. What if the character doesn’t really know their own origin? What if everything they new is only a partial truth and the whole point of the story is their discovering the whole truth?
Ok so that what two questions, but I would still like some feedback on them.