Comments on: Three qualities of interesting villains http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/ How to write a graphic novel, comic book or superhero novel and get it published Sat, 31 Jul 2010 08:19:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-70753 B. Mac Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:28:51 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-70753 "Which is better: A team of supervillains or a lone villain, possibly with one or two lackeys?" I think this is personal preference, but personally I prefer single villains because they're easier to develop. Also, villains usually do not get much face-time, so wasting what little they have to introduce a sprawling team of villains is probably not terribly effective. <br /> I think it might make sense to have a team of supervillains if one of the villains is a point-of-view character. Then having more supervillains would add more room for villain vs. villain conflict. <br /> Depending on your preferences, you could give the lieutenants and/or henchmen some individual characterization without making them villains in their own right. For example, the villain's lieutenants are particularly important in the story I'm working on now because the villain starts the story completely inexperienced and unwilling/unable to get his hands dirty. “Which is better: A team of supervillains or a lone villain, possibly with one or two lackeys?” I think this is personal preference, but personally I prefer single villains because they’re easier to develop. Also, villains usually do not get much face-time, so wasting what little they have to introduce a sprawling team of villains is probably not terribly effective.

I think it might make sense to have a team of supervillains if one of the villains is a point-of-view character. Then having more supervillains would add more room for villain vs. villain conflict.

Depending on your preferences, you could give the lieutenants and/or henchmen some individual characterization without making them villains in their own right. For example, the villain’s lieutenants are particularly important in the story I’m working on now because the villain starts the story completely inexperienced and unwilling/unable to get his hands dirty.

]]> By: NicKenny http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-70726 NicKenny Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:14:06 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-70726 Which is better: A team of supervillians or a lone villian, possibly with one or two lackeys? Which is better: A team of supervillians or a lone villian, possibly with one or two lackeys?

]]> By: The Standardized Supervillain http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-70711 The Standardized Supervillain Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:53:30 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-70711 i thought up Mary-Anne in a moment of sarcastic abandon. (For some reason, a villain that happens to be a little girl in a pink dress and a pink hair bow really cracked me up.) but i hadn't been able to come up with a real scheme for her, so i just grabbed the first thing that came to mind. i thought up Mary-Anne in a moment of sarcastic abandon. (For some reason, a villain that happens to be a little girl in a pink dress and a pink hair bow really cracked me up.) but i hadn’t been able to come up with a real scheme for her, so i just grabbed the first thing that came to mind.

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-70687 B. Mac Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:58:11 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-70687 I think Omni sounds mostly interesting. Not feeling Mary Anne. I think it's really hard for a child villain to have the emotional and/or logical depth to drive a plot. Unless maybe the kid is prodigally mature? (However, if her main goal is putting together a tea party or something similar, I'm pretty sure that she's not). <br /> One slightly more mature goal that comes to mind is that she wants to make the world better and decides that adults are the problem. (Maybe she's been abandoned by her parents, or they did something that made her run away, or she was really upset that they lied to her or failed her in some way, or is sick of being patronized, etc). Her plan might be to just kill off everybody above a certain age, or to make adults into kids somehow, or whatever. (One advantage of the second plan would be that she might actually pull it off, whereas killing everybody is almost certainly not going to happen). I think Omni sounds mostly interesting. Not feeling Mary Anne. I think it’s really hard for a child villain to have the emotional and/or logical depth to drive a plot. Unless maybe the kid is prodigally mature? (However, if her main goal is putting together a tea party or something similar, I’m pretty sure that she’s not).

One slightly more mature goal that comes to mind is that she wants to make the world better and decides that adults are the problem. (Maybe she’s been abandoned by her parents, or they did something that made her run away, or she was really upset that they lied to her or failed her in some way, or is sick of being patronized, etc). Her plan might be to just kill off everybody above a certain age, or to make adults into kids somehow, or whatever. (One advantage of the second plan would be that she might actually pull it off, whereas killing everybody is almost certainly not going to happen).

]]> By: The Standardized Supervillain http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-70684 The Standardized Supervillain Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:48:38 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-70684 I've had a couple of ideas for villains in my head for at least two weeks, so i figured I'd post 'em here and see if they're workable. The first one is Mary-Anne. She's seven years old, and is equipped with almost every psychic superpower I know of (except astral projection). Her primary motivation is finding someone to play with her (tea-party and the like), and whenever she's unable to find a playmate, she throws temper tantrums strong enough to level a city. The second is Omni. His primary power is power absorption, meaning that by the time the heroes face him, he's about as powerful as the modern Superman. (My opinion is that if Superman turned evil, nothing in the known universe could stop him. Which is another reason I hate him.) His motivation is kinda cliche, I guess - he wants to completely purge baseline humans (called Normals) from Earth. (I'm not really sure about this villain... I like his powers, though) That's all I have right now. What do ya think? I’ve had a couple of ideas for villains in my head for at least two weeks, so i figured I’d post ‘em here and see if they’re workable.

The first one is Mary-Anne. She’s seven years old, and is equipped with almost every psychic superpower I know of (except astral projection). Her primary motivation is finding someone to play with her (tea-party and the like), and whenever she’s unable to find a playmate, she throws temper tantrums strong enough to level a city.

The second is Omni. His primary power is power absorption, meaning that by the time the heroes face him, he’s about as powerful as the modern Superman. (My opinion is that if Superman turned evil, nothing in the known universe could stop him. Which is another reason I hate him.) His motivation is kinda cliche, I guess – he wants to completely purge baseline humans (called Normals) from Earth. (I’m not really sure about this villain… I like his powers, though)

That’s all I have right now. What do ya think?

]]> By: ekimmak http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68353 ekimmak Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:30:47 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68353 The original idea I had was that she's a doctor, and quite friendly actually. For instance, in the middle of a fight, when someone agonizes out loud ("My hand!") she'd interject instinctively with advice ("I'd recommend diluting the acid with running water"), because the only reason she's even out being evil is because she's under another villain's influence. But, I did like a lot of those ideas. The original idea I had was that she’s a doctor, and quite friendly actually. For instance, in the middle of a fight, when someone agonizes out loud (“My hand!”) she’d interject instinctively with advice (“I’d recommend diluting the acid with running water”), because the only reason she’s even out being evil is because she’s under another villain’s influence.

But, I did like a lot of those ideas.

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68274 B. Mac Sat, 26 Jun 2010 04:19:42 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68274 I agree that writing a character that hates her powers is tricky, but I didn't quite get that LM's proposed character would hate her powers. I think there's a subtle difference between hating one's powers (like plant control) and hating the subject of one's powers (the plants). I suspect that the first is more likely to cause excessive angst ("why meeeee?") than the second ("dammit, plants, when I want your opinion I will give it to you!") <br /> An example that seems sort of similar to me would be the difference between an athlete that is disgusted by the fans and/or the game and an athlete that hates his athletic talent. (Maybe he's one of those freakishly tall basketball stars that will probably die of heart failure before the age of 30). I agree that writing a character that hates her powers is tricky, but I didn’t quite get that LM’s proposed character would hate her powers. I think there’s a subtle difference between hating one’s powers (like plant control) and hating the subject of one’s powers (the plants). I suspect that the first is more likely to cause excessive angst (“why meeeee?”) than the second (“dammit, plants, when I want your opinion I will give it to you!”)

An example that seems sort of similar to me would be the difference between an athlete that is disgusted by the fans and/or the game and an athlete that hates his athletic talent. (Maybe he’s one of those freakishly tall basketball stars that will probably die of heart failure before the age of 30).

]]> By: Wings http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68237 Wings Sat, 26 Jun 2010 01:03:03 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68237 I have a plant manipulating <i>hero</i> myself. When I hear "plant manipulator", I think "down to earth vegetarian hippie". Therefore, I worked to create the polar opposite of that, and I came up with Synth as he is today: a lover of slasher films and meat who talks to a Venus flytrap. To go by TV Tropes, he is also a Chivalrous Pervert. As the story developed, he also became very laid back and gained a slacker mentality. At the same time, he is arguably one of the most honestly heroic members of the Six, outstripping even Hikari. Not bad, considering his original concept was just a bit part character created to fill out the Six. I am in full agreement with Lighting Man's concepts here, although I'm guessing that creating a villainess who hates her power would have to be well written in order to avoid Wangst and annoying-ness. - Wings I have a plant manipulating hero myself. When I hear “plant manipulator”, I think “down to earth vegetarian hippie”. Therefore, I worked to create the polar opposite of that, and I came up with Synth as he is today: a lover of slasher films and meat who talks to a Venus flytrap. To go by TV Tropes, he is also a Chivalrous Pervert. As the story developed, he also became very laid back and gained a slacker mentality. At the same time, he is arguably one of the most honestly heroic members of the Six, outstripping even Hikari. Not bad, considering his original concept was just a bit part character created to fill out the Six.

I am in full agreement with Lighting Man’s concepts here, although I’m guessing that creating a villainess who hates her power would have to be well written in order to avoid Wangst and annoying-ness.

- Wings

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68140 B. Mac Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:32:32 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68140 Good stuff, LM! I like your thinking, particularly the concept of her holding plants in contempt and/or the plants hating their would-be slavemaster. In a garden, plants are hard enough to manage. Let alone the weeds! Good stuff, LM! I like your thinking, particularly the concept of her holding plants in contempt and/or the plants hating their would-be slavemaster. In a garden, plants are hard enough to manage. Let alone the weeds!

]]> By: Lighting Man http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68137 Lighting Man Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:15:55 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68137 I think another avenue that could be explored is a different relationship between her and the plants. Poison Ivy in most of her "mature" (by which I mean, well-written, non-pinup girl appearances) is a eco-terrorist at heart, she is fighting for the freedom and protection of plants. She can literally talk to them and hear them talk back. She often reacts to incidents in which they are hurt, such as experiments or logging camps. She could admire plants just as Ivy does, but feel ostracized and left out or even hated by the plants because of her human side, however large or small that might be. The plants, if you want to go pretty far with it, might even make attempts on her life when she is not actively controlling them. This doesn't require plants to be aware within your universe, however, as she could be doing it without knowing it. This would lead her crimes a much higher level of desperation and allow you to focus on her attempting to terra-form large areas for the propagation of plants. Another direction would be the reversal of the above relationship, she could be highly allergic to plant allergens, had a bad experience with a plant (a car accident?) or any other such thing that might cause hatred and just have a completely negative relationship with the things at her command. This could lead to her committing crimes in which she targets plants, and subsequently human life is caught in the balance. Although both of the above examples, I offered suggestions about how they might influence her motivations, there are quite a few ways you could drastically alter her relationship with plants, perceived or real, and use that to differentiate from Poison Ivy, while leaving her motivations wide open. I think another avenue that could be explored is a different relationship between her and the plants. Poison Ivy in most of her “mature” (by which I mean, well-written, non-pinup girl appearances) is a eco-terrorist at heart, she is fighting for the freedom and protection of plants. She can literally talk to them and hear them talk back. She often reacts to incidents in which they are hurt, such as experiments or logging camps.

She could admire plants just as Ivy does, but feel ostracized and left out or even hated by the plants because of her human side, however large or small that might be. The plants, if you want to go pretty far with it, might even make attempts on her life when she is not actively controlling them. This doesn’t require plants to be aware within your universe, however, as she could be doing it without knowing it. This would lead her crimes a much higher level of desperation and allow you to focus on her attempting to terra-form large areas for the propagation of plants.

Another direction would be the reversal of the above relationship, she could be highly allergic to plant allergens, had a bad experience with a plant (a car accident?) or any other such thing that might cause hatred and just have a completely negative relationship with the things at her command. This could lead to her committing crimes in which she targets plants, and subsequently human life is caught in the balance.

Although both of the above examples, I offered suggestions about how they might influence her motivations, there are quite a few ways you could drastically alter her relationship with plants, perceived or real, and use that to differentiate from Poison Ivy, while leaving her motivations wide open.

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68128 B. Mac Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:30:18 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68128 "How would you create a plant-based villain without her being a total Poison Ivy ripoff?" <br /> --Different personality? --Different background/backstory? (IE: instead of being a scientist, maybe she's a businesswoman or a rogue cop or something). --Different goal? (What she's trying to do). --Different motivation? (Why she's trying to do it). --Different limitations on her abilities and/or resources? --Maybe a different relationship between her and the protagonist(s)? <br /> I think you've got your work cut out for you. When I hear "plant-based villainess," "Poison Ivy ripoff" is the first thing that comes to mind. In particular, how are you going to differentiate the fight scenes? “How would you create a plant-based villain without her being a total Poison Ivy ripoff?”

–Different personality?
–Different background/backstory? (IE: instead of being a scientist, maybe she’s a businesswoman or a rogue cop or something).
–Different goal? (What she’s trying to do).
–Different motivation? (Why she’s trying to do it).
–Different limitations on her abilities and/or resources?
–Maybe a different relationship between her and the protagonist(s)?

I think you’ve got your work cut out for you. When I hear “plant-based villainess,” “Poison Ivy ripoff” is the first thing that comes to mind. In particular, how are you going to differentiate the fight scenes?

]]> By: ShardReaper http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68092 ShardReaper Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:54:05 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68092 She could have the ability to create clones through plants? I don't think that's been done before. She could have the ability to create clones through plants? I don’t think that’s been done before.

]]> By: ekimmak http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-68078 ekimmak Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:33:35 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-68078 How would you create a plant-based villain without her being a total Poison Ivy ripoff? How would you create a plant-based villain without her being a total Poison Ivy ripoff?

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-61313 B. Mac Wed, 12 May 2010 11:54:51 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-61313 I think Disney has a lot of classic villains. I find Pixar's storytelling superior in most every other way, but Pixar villains sometimes strike me as a bit lackluster. My only complaint about The Incredibles was the weak antagonist. Cars' villain was an utterly formulaic Stuck-Up Rival. I loved the Captain Ahab-like villain of Up, though. Captain Ahab + an airship named the Spirit of Adventure - peg leg = awesome. I think Disney has a lot of classic villains. I find Pixar’s storytelling superior in most every other way, but Pixar villains sometimes strike me as a bit lackluster. My only complaint about The Incredibles was the weak antagonist. Cars’ villain was an utterly formulaic Stuck-Up Rival. I loved the Captain Ahab-like villain of Up, though. Captain Ahab + an airship named the Spirit of Adventure – peg leg = awesome.

]]> By: Kenny http://www.superheronation.com/2008/10/22/writing-tip-of-the-day-make-sure-your-villains-dont-wilt-in-the-spotlight/#comment-61283 Kenny Wed, 12 May 2010 03:10:03 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1262#comment-61283 Yes, I love all these villains... if 'love' it the right word. I agree with everyone but, someone had to bring up Disney villains. Yeah, I'm weird like that-- inspiration for a baddie? Go to Disney, of course! Y'know though Judge Claude Frollo fills all three of these, competence; he follows Phoebus to find Esmeralda, and follows Quasimodo to find the Court of Miracles, etc. style; oh, man, does he have style, ambition; he believed hat he was doing was right, killing all the Gypsies and his lust for Esmeralda (the song 'Hellfire' pretty much lays all three of the traits down, right?) Most villains know they're evil but, this man was so fueled by what he believed was evil he didn't realize he was the evil one. I really got to stop fangirlin' this movie. It's controlling my mind. Yes, I love all these villains… if ‘love’ it the right word. I agree with everyone but, someone had to bring up Disney villains.
Yeah, I’m weird like that– inspiration for a baddie? Go to Disney, of course!
Y’know though Judge Claude Frollo fills all three of these, competence; he follows Phoebus to find Esmeralda, and follows Quasimodo to find the Court of Miracles, etc. style; oh, man, does he have style, ambition; he believed hat he was doing was right, killing all the Gypsies and his lust for Esmeralda (the song ‘Hellfire’ pretty much lays all three of the traits down, right?)
Most villains know they’re evil but, this man was so fueled by what he believed was evil he didn’t realize he was the evil one.
I really got to stop fangirlin’ this movie. It’s controlling my mind.

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