Comments on: Don’t Make Your Villains Unnecessarily Evil http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/ How to write a superhero book, comic book or superhero novel and get it published Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:42:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Lighting Man http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-87812 Lighting Man Tue, 09 Nov 2010 19:14:33 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-87812 I don't actually completely agree with that being why he killed Michael Jai White's character, but the "audition" was part of Joker's character throughout the film, he played on individuals to put them in desperate situations in which the only solution is to do what he wants, he made Batman choose between Rachel and Harvey, knowing what Batman would choose, and then controlled Batman's choice. it was an ongoing theme, which culminated in the boat situation, but was really only settled by his success in crafting the "white knight" of Gotham into Two-Face. It could be argued that even his fight with the vengeful detective from "Angel" was an example of his playing with this theme, as he knew that the detective playing guard over him would know better than to indulge his whims, but coerced him into doing so anyway, however, that had more to do with his plan then anything. I think Gambol's death was primarily facilitated by that aspect of cowardice that remains in Joker (primarily visible during his final scenes, but made evident during his initial "presentation" to the gangs, both before and after his magic trick) Gambol threatens him on a level that disrupts the persona of the Joker, so he reclaims his dominance and reestablishes the Joker persona's power, by brutally murdering him. Power vacuums opposing power creates more anarchy than just vacuums, so it didn't fit with his motivations to kill Gambol, and he controlled people in such a way as to not need the kind of standing army that Gambol's forces offered him, so the only real reason for Joker to kill Gambol is to make an example of him, as he did, and to reassert his strength. Just my opinion though. I don’t actually completely agree with that being why he killed Michael Jai White’s character, but the “audition” was part of Joker’s character throughout the film, he played on individuals to put them in desperate situations in which the only solution is to do what he wants, he made Batman choose between Rachel and Harvey, knowing what Batman would choose, and then controlled Batman’s choice. it was an ongoing theme, which culminated in the boat situation, but was really only settled by his success in crafting the “white knight” of Gotham into Two-Face.

It could be argued that even his fight with the vengeful detective from “Angel” was an example of his playing with this theme, as he knew that the detective playing guard over him would know better than to indulge his whims, but coerced him into doing so anyway, however, that had more to do with his plan then anything.

I think Gambol’s death was primarily facilitated by that aspect of cowardice that remains in Joker (primarily visible during his final scenes, but made evident during his initial “presentation” to the gangs, both before and after his magic trick) Gambol threatens him on a level that disrupts the persona of the Joker, so he reclaims his dominance and reestablishes the Joker persona’s power, by brutally murdering him.

Power vacuums opposing power creates more anarchy than just vacuums, so it didn’t fit with his motivations to kill Gambol, and he controlled people in such a way as to not need the kind of standing army that Gambol’s forces offered him, so the only real reason for Joker to kill Gambol is to make an example of him, as he did, and to reassert his strength.

Just my opinion though.

]]> By: Sean Higgins http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-87804 Sean Higgins Tue, 09 Nov 2010 18:36:01 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-87804 B.Mac - in regards to your footnote on the DK's Joker, the murder of the black gang leader was required for the Joker's plan. He intended to take over all the Gotham crime families so that he could use them to return the city to it's chaotic roots. However, Gable (the black leader) made it clear during their first meeting that he would likely never side with the Joker. Thus, in order to bring Gable's subordinates into the Joker's circle was to kill Gable himself. The following bit where he had the others kill each other to join didn't make complete sense, other than to show that the only choices available was to commit to the Joker or death. B.Mac – in regards to your footnote on the DK’s Joker, the murder of the black gang leader was required for the Joker’s plan. He intended to take over all the Gotham crime families so that he could use them to return the city to it’s chaotic roots. However, Gable (the black leader) made it clear during their first meeting that he would likely never side with the Joker. Thus, in order to bring Gable’s subordinates into the Joker’s circle was to kill Gable himself.

The following bit where he had the others kill each other to join didn’t make complete sense, other than to show that the only choices available was to commit to the Joker or death.

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81702 Dillan Tue, 05 Oct 2010 02:37:19 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81702 Instead of growing detached from humanity hes looking to bring world order through conquest.because he believes hes the only one competent to do this.He has megalomanic tendencies but with a noble goal.He also has a Daughter who is an anchor to humanity for him as she represents youth and innocence.The reason for the alternative energy source is the fact that the world's resources are being depleted.And the current state of the world is dark.the world leaders allow their petty squabbling to get in the way of peace.Hes kind of a revolutionary because he believes very deeply in his cause.He's an anti hero in the sense that hes some of a ruthless dictator,but along the lines of creating order and establishing himself as a capable leader. Also within his private life he shares a closeness to his PA,who is like a serroget(sry spelling)mother to his daughter. I want him to be very powerful but retain his humanity. Also im working hard to balance the character, i want him to be able to be challenged thus making him interesting.another thing is my character has a code of personal honor which i believe adds a dynamic to his depth and allowing me to write the character where he doesn't sholve every problem with his powers.Like the political nature of the story.the public in my story see him like a messiah like figure a savior and in many aspects thats true he generally wants to establish peace and order Instead of growing detached from humanity hes looking to bring world order through conquest.because he believes hes the only one competent to do this.He has megalomanic tendencies but with a noble goal.He also has a Daughter who is an anchor to humanity for him as she represents youth and innocence.The reason for the alternative energy source is the fact that the world’s resources are being depleted.And the current state of the world is dark.the world leaders allow their petty squabbling to get in the way of peace.Hes kind of a revolutionary because he believes very deeply in his cause.He’s an anti hero in the sense that hes some of a ruthless dictator,but along the lines of creating order and establishing himself as a capable leader. Also within his private life he shares a closeness to his PA,who is like a serroget(sry spelling)mother to his daughter. I want him to be very powerful but retain his humanity. Also im working hard to balance the character, i want him to be able to be challenged thus making him interesting.another thing is my character has a code of personal honor which i believe adds a dynamic to his depth and allowing me to write the character where he doesn’t sholve every problem with his powers.Like the political nature of the story.the public in my story see him like a messiah like figure a savior and in many aspects thats true he generally wants to establish peace and order

]]> By: Eren Ramzi http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81698 Eren Ramzi Tue, 05 Oct 2010 02:29:34 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81698 Hi B. Mac, long time no speak. Not sure if you remember me. Hope you're well. Just wanted to ask you if you could delete my two review forums. Don't need them anymore. Thanks for the feedback you gave me a while back. It really helped me to fix aspects of my character's origin and backstory. Haven't visited this place for ages. Hi B. Mac, long time no speak. Not sure if you remember me. Hope you’re well.

Just wanted to ask you if you could delete my two review forums. Don’t need them anymore.

Thanks for the feedback you gave me a while back. It really helped me to fix aspects of my character’s origin and backstory.

Haven’t visited this place for ages.

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81691 B. Mac Tue, 05 Oct 2010 01:48:36 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81691 I don't know. It seems like either a generic lab accident or being a mutant would be sort of bland. This guy is an anti-hero, right? You could probably do something distinct with that. Maybe he's involved in some shady business and then he has his accident or is forcibly exposed to something dangerous or whatever. (IE: maybe he's working as a scientist on behalf of some unscrupulous people, and that's what gets him). What's something that he would do that, say, Dr. Manhattan wouldn't? I don’t know. It seems like either a generic lab accident or being a mutant would be sort of bland. This guy is an anti-hero, right? You could probably do something distinct with that. Maybe he’s involved in some shady business and then he has his accident or is forcibly exposed to something dangerous or whatever. (IE: maybe he’s working as a scientist on behalf of some unscrupulous people, and that’s what gets him). What’s something that he would do that, say, Dr. Manhattan wouldn’t?

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81662 Dillan Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:59:59 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81662 I want the main character to exhibit competence,style,and ambition I want the main character to exhibit competence,style,and ambition

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81656 Dillan Mon, 04 Oct 2010 22:35:04 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81656 Hey i am wondering whether or not to do an origin story between him being a mutant,or him recieving his powers via lab accident etc.My character starts out an orphan and learns quickly that nothing will be handed down to him.He makes an extream effort to excel in school recieving a scholarship to attend oxford.while there hes constantly reminded of his lesser standings and he was there at someone elses mercy.after graduating from oxford he continues his scientific studies at MIT.He went on to recieve various advance degrees most notable in the field of physics.later he would establish a multinational industry with focus on medicine,advance tech,and alternative energy sources.as chairman he turn it into a global powerhouse advance tech several years and find cures to diseases.He Colaberated(sry spelling) on a project that would provide a limitless energy source by harnessing cosmic energy.After working on the project for a few years the final test were being down for preperation of the public showing.due to miscalculation when powering up the machine the radiation shields started to fail.Because his name and money where on the line he stayed behind trying to repair the shield.He believed his protective suit would shield him for a limited time.The machine reaching its peak begun expossing power radiation,however this wasn't cosmic energy it was an alien radiation from another source the machine soon overloaded and the blast almost killed the Mc.he was saved by his latent powers which where increased exponentually by the radiation,granting him vast psionic powers telepathy,telekinesis,reality warping on a Godlike scale (almost like when doom stole beyonders powers)simular to that it maybe too much power for him to control.Thoughts on the origin? Hey i am wondering whether or not to do an origin story between him being a mutant,or him recieving his powers via lab accident etc.My character starts out an orphan and learns quickly that nothing will be handed down to him.He makes an extream effort to excel in school recieving a scholarship to attend oxford.while there hes constantly reminded of his lesser standings and he was there at someone elses mercy.after graduating from oxford he continues his scientific studies at MIT.He went on to recieve various advance degrees most notable in the field of physics.later he would establish a multinational industry with focus on medicine,advance tech,and alternative energy sources.as chairman he turn it into a global powerhouse advance tech several years and find cures to diseases.He Colaberated(sry spelling) on a project that would provide a limitless energy source by harnessing cosmic energy.After working on the project for a few years the final test were being down for preperation of the public showing.due to miscalculation when powering up the machine the radiation shields started to fail.Because his name and money where on the line he stayed behind trying to repair the shield.He believed his protective suit would shield him for a limited time.The machine reaching its peak begun expossing power radiation,however this wasn’t cosmic energy it was an alien radiation from another source the machine soon overloaded and the blast almost killed the Mc.he was saved by his latent powers which where increased exponentually by the radiation,granting him vast psionic powers telepathy,telekinesis,reality warping on a Godlike scale (almost like when doom stole beyonders powers)simular to that it maybe too much power for him to control.Thoughts on the origin?

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81499 Dillan Mon, 04 Oct 2010 02:47:43 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81499 Yeah imma go with lord sovereign and thanks for insight Yeah imma go with lord sovereign and thanks for insight

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81495 B. Mac Mon, 04 Oct 2010 02:37:08 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81495 I'm not a lawyer and don't have any experience doing any legal stuff on behalf of any publishers. So, with that caveat... <br /> Generally, I don't think a similar name is a problem unless it reminds people of the other. I think that Ozymandias is so distinct that it's likely to remind publishers and readers of the Watchmen character. In contrast, I don't think it would be a problem to take a common name like (say) Peter or Bruce, because those are generic enough that they probably wouldn't bring Spiderman or Batman to mind. But a character with a name with "Spiderman" in it would definitely raise a lot of eyebrows, even if the name were slightly altered like "Lord Spiderman." <br /> If you submitted a character with a name with the word "Ozymandias" in it, I think the publisher would probably have you change it before putting it out to print.* DC (and Marvel) are aggressive about suing over stuff like that, and companies would rather change a name than risk a lawsuit. (And, if you were working for DC or Marvel, they'd probably change it anyway to avoid confusion with their previously-published characters). <br /> *Exception: Historical figures can't be copyrighted, so it'd probably be acceptable to use the historical Ozymandias. For example, many different comics companies have used Rasputin and Hitler as minor villains, and the Ozymandias of the Uncanny X-Men is an alternate version of the historical pharaoh Ozymandias. I’m not a lawyer and don’t have any experience doing any legal stuff on behalf of any publishers. So, with that caveat…

Generally, I don’t think a similar name is a problem unless it reminds people of the other. I think that Ozymandias is so distinct that it’s likely to remind publishers and readers of the Watchmen character. In contrast, I don’t think it would be a problem to take a common name like (say) Peter or Bruce, because those are generic enough that they probably wouldn’t bring Spiderman or Batman to mind. But a character with a name with “Spiderman” in it would definitely raise a lot of eyebrows, even if the name were slightly altered like “Lord Spiderman.”

If you submitted a character with a name with the word “Ozymandias” in it, I think the publisher would probably have you change it before putting it out to print.* DC (and Marvel) are aggressive about suing over stuff like that, and companies would rather change a name than risk a lawsuit. (And, if you were working for DC or Marvel, they’d probably change it anyway to avoid confusion with their previously-published characters).

*Exception: Historical figures can’t be copyrighted, so it’d probably be acceptable to use the historical Ozymandias. For example, many different comics companies have used Rasputin and Hitler as minor villains, and the Ozymandias of the Uncanny X-Men is an alternate version of the historical pharaoh Ozymandias.

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81486 Dillan Mon, 04 Oct 2010 01:52:00 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81486 I like lord sovereign but i also like the whole king of kings translation. But also marvel has a minor character called ozymandias so i was wondering why you know with the copy right stuff are they able to have characters that are simular or share names with no problems. I like lord sovereign but i also like the whole king of kings translation. But also marvel has a minor character called ozymandias so i was wondering why you know with the copy right stuff are they able to have characters that are simular or share names with no problems.

]]> By: B. Mac http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81445 B. Mac Sun, 03 Oct 2010 21:24:46 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81445 I like Lord Sovereign... <br /> I'd recommend against using Lord Ozymandias because I think the Watchmen villain is too well-known. (You might be able to use Ramses to similar effect, though--Ozymandias was the Greek transliteration of Ramses). Or maybe a title for some sort of monarch, like Pharaoh or Czar or something. I like Lord Sovereign…

I’d recommend against using Lord Ozymandias because I think the Watchmen villain is too well-known. (You might be able to use Ramses to similar effect, though–Ozymandias was the Greek transliteration of Ramses). Or maybe a title for some sort of monarch, like Pharaoh or Czar or something.

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81430 Dillan Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:26:07 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81430 Or lord ozymandias? I know theres and ozy in both watchman and marvel but i love the name and what it represents ;p Or lord ozymandias? I know theres and ozy in both watchman and marvel but i love the name and what it represents ;p

]]> By: Dillan http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-81425 Dillan Sun, 03 Oct 2010 18:43:14 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-81425 Hey is lord sovereign a cool main villain name? Hey is lord sovereign a cool main villain name?

]]> By: JLT http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-51243 JLT Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:33:35 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-51243 Heh he heh...ho ho...Ha. I think I'll ask a question here me'self, however, it wont be about my villains, they dont want in on this thread. What would you consider the Villains of the Disney Universe? Almost all were evil and awesome at the same times. Especially Scar who was the most wicked villain ever to be in a Disney Movie. I mean he killed his brother so ruthlessly and then made his nephew feel incredibly guilty then tried to kill him without a single smidgen of a conscience! I dont know about Frollo from Notre Dam, ever really liked him. But what would you say about all those cool villains and...villainets? Including Rasputin and pixar villains if you know about em. Oh and my boy Dr. Facilier! Awesome guy! Heh he heh…ho ho…Ha. I think I’ll ask a question here me’self, however, it wont be about my villains, they dont want in on this thread.

What would you consider the Villains of the Disney Universe? Almost all were evil and awesome at the same times. Especially Scar who was the most wicked villain ever to be in a Disney Movie. I mean he killed his brother so ruthlessly and then made his nephew feel incredibly guilty then tried to kill him without a single smidgen of a conscience! I dont know about Frollo from Notre Dam, ever really liked him. But what would you say about all those cool villains and…villainets? Including Rasputin and pixar villains if you know about em. Oh and my boy Dr. Facilier! Awesome guy!

]]> By: Echo http://www.superheronation.com/2008/09/01/dont-make-your-villains-unnecessarily-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-51235 Echo Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:48:22 +0000 http://www.superheronation.com/?p=1087#comment-51235 What do you think of an utilitarian villain - someone who thinks that the best action is the one that is the most useful/ gives the most happiness to the largest group, and pretty much disregards the individual. Good idea? or completely overdone? What do you think of an utilitarian villain – someone who thinks that the best action is the one that is the most useful/ gives the most happiness to the largest group, and pretty much disregards the individual. Good idea? or completely overdone?

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