Comments on: Manuscript Killers: Homo Superiors

By: Herojock

Herojock — Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:30:33 +0000

Slightly confused here B. Mac. You suggest using mental and social obstacles to solve the problem of homo superiors in your article. ”teamwork, selflessness, diplomacy/tact, persuasion, subterfuge”. Then make a post and state ”poor social skills could also raise severe likability and relatability issues”. Help ‘blonde’ out here

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Sat, 30 May 2009 04:35:23 +0000

Also, Neo was much better at using the Matrix than the robots were. I’m not sure why that was, but it may have been for reasons other than the superiority of the human spirit. Neo was much better than other humans, as well, so that suggests that it’s not all about the human spirit.

By: notsohottopic

notsohottopic — Sat, 30 May 2009 03:03:38 +0000

‘Tangent time. I’m annoyed that, when humans have a superior trait over elves or whatever, it is almost never that we are physically or mentally or magically stronger. It’s always something like “the human spirit!” or willpower or whatever.’

Well, the human spirit thing applied rather skillfully in the Matrix. A robot can have complex functions trained to have emotional responses, but it can only go so far to mimic the human condition. Egad, did I just have a philosophical moment? Sorry, everyone. Either way, it can work sometimes, depending on how well it is incorporated into the story.

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Sat, 16 May 2009 23:34:14 +0000

I think it’s far more cliche for the elf to sneer about how everything elves do is awesome (as in Eragon or 8-Bit Theatre, for example). I’m not familiar with Drizzt’s odes to humanity, but I think that a person who is insecure about his own species has a lot more potential than the typical sneering homo superior.

Tangent time. I’m annoyed that, when humans have a superior trait over elves or whatever, it is almost never that we are physically or mentally or magically stronger. It’s always something like “the human spirit!” or willpower or whatever.

By: Marissa

Marissa — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:55:17 +0000

“Written properly” meant… used as more than just sexual objects. =/

By: Marissa

Marissa — Tue, 12 May 2009 05:34:00 +0000

Hmm… I’d trust a gay man’s portrayal of a lesbian, as long as he’s sure he’s gay.

And I really hope that statement didn’t offend anyone. >_>;

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Tue, 12 May 2009 05:18:15 +0000

I don’t get the heterosexual male attraction to lesbians, but it’s definitely out there. I think that’s one of the reasons that heterosexual males are often regarded as less than credible/serious when it comes to lesbian fiction. I’m not sure about gay men, either.

By: Marissa

Marissa — Tue, 12 May 2009 05:00:25 +0000

Honestly, I’d be wary of a book about lesbians written by a heterosexual guy. I’ve never, not once, seen a lesbian written properly by a guy. Usually they overly emphasize the ‘hot lesbian action’. =/

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Tue, 12 May 2009 04:31:14 +0000

But do UK bookstores have separate bookshelves for gay stuff? Having never been to a British bookstore, I don’t know. But UK Amazon does list a separate category for gay & lesbian works. (Admittedly, that could be because it’s owned by an American company, so take that for what it’s worth).

If British bookstores do separate gay & lesbian works, I’d recommend staying away from a lesbian protagonist in this situation because I don’t think that it’s that important to this story.

By: David

David — Tue, 12 May 2009 03:23:07 +0000

uk readers are very good with homosexuality i dont think that would be a problem publacastion wise

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Tue, 12 May 2009 01:26:34 +0000

I assume you’re going to publish this in the UK. I’m not sure how mainstream readers in the UK handle homosexuality. However, at least in the US, I would really recommend against making the protagonist gay unless it’s extremely important to the book. In the US, books about gay protagonists are usually sequestered on the gay-and-lesbian rack of the bookstore, which is very corrosive to sales.

Also, I’ve heard it from a few authors that US publishers are very cool to books about lesbians written by heterosexual males. (Perhaps they presume that a heterosexual male is less serious about the subject than a woman, or that the readers don’t want a male’s perspective on the subject, or whatever). I would recommend asking around to see if that’s the case in the UK.

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Mon, 11 May 2009 21:20:08 +0000

“The other problem is that you’re citing these bad decisions… but all of them were very poorly handled as opposed to being inherently bad ideas.” Ok, but why will yours be better? How will you execute it differently? When you submit queries and proposals, I think it could only help you to be explicit about that.

In particular, if you’re submitting this to a comic book publisher, I think that the Sentry will weigh on their mind. Since comparisons to the Sentry will probably render your work dead on arrival, I would really try to differentiate yourself from it. Here are some possible suggestions: your hero isn’t obnoxiously overpowered, you treat the character’s mental issues as something other than a comedy routine, you’re not inserting the character into the universe’s history, there’s no fake/imagined Void, etc.

If you’re doing a comic book, I’d also recommend looking at Doom Patrol or any other series with emotionally troubled heroes. I feel like it’ll be a tough sell, though. These series often sell poorly.

If you’re pitching a novel, I’d recommend focusing on Hero. Hero is a superhero novel that sold reasonably well even though the protagonist dealt with major internal struggles (coming to grips with his gayness). I haven’t read it, but based on reviews I would say that the book did a pretty good job bringing his internal struggle into external drama by adding a conflict with his father. Generally, I think external drama is more compelling and easier to sell than internal drama. I’m not sure how you could turn mental anguish into external drama, though. (I suppose you could look into I Am Sam, a movie about a retarded protagonist that fights the courts for custody of his child).

I hope that helps. Good luck.

By: B. Mac

B. Mac — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:51:09 +0000

"You know, the socialising weakness is a massive one. Humans, and by extension superhumans, have an innate need to socialise; someone who’s socially awkward is ultimately going to be facing a lot of drama and feel quite lonely."
I suspect that poor social skills could also raise severe likability and relatability issues. For example, the Sentry is a extremely withdrawn homo superior; he is widely reviled. My take is that problems that originate from within the character's own mind generally do not make for very satisfying obstacles. If the main thing holding back your character is himself, readers might feel that he's useless. The Sentry has definitely reached that point. (Please read this article on the Sentry and his imaginary internal obstacle, the Void).
I think the Martian Manhunter is another example where poor social skills compromise likability. Poor social skills are especially lethal when the character has an extremely exotic origin story, I feel. If the origin removes us from the character, it will really help to make him friendly and outgoing to reduce the obstacles between the character and audience.
"The problem with a few of the articles on this site is that you’re using physical/violent issues as primary problems in stories when what you should be using is mental and social issues."
Mental/social issues are an option, but they're kind of a niche option. I would definitely not recommend them for every author, and I don't think that most authors want to write that kind of story. For every Rorschach or Dr. Manhattan, there are at least 20 superheroes that deal mainly with physical obstacles. There is a side-market for superhero drama as opposed to superhero action, but I would venture to say that the large majority of readers that buy superhero stories are looking for stories with at least a strong action component.
I'll look into an article on internal obstacles, though.
"All of the super-strength, heat vision and flight in the world can’t bring someone back to life or cure a heart condition, for instance."
This is true, but I don't feel that these sorts of storylines typically turn out well. For example, "One More Day" features Spiderman struggling to save his Aunt May and eventually he, umm, makes a deal with the devil. On the DC side, Superman loses Pa Kent to a heart attack. I think that these arcs are (at best) forgettable. On the other hand, Gwen Stacey and Uncle Ben provided extremely moving themes about the limits of power and the responsibilities of a hero. I think that the deaths of Gwen and Ben are much more memorable (in part) because hostile actors were involved.

By: Ragged Boy

Ragged Boy — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:10:31 +0000

You make a very good point about the social issues of superheroism. I, too, would like to get a more mental and social understanding of the issues that come with being a superhero. Besides, the secret identity and their overall motivation for their actions, I hadn’t thought much about what a hero thinks of more secular issues. I would suspect that most of them would have to come to grips with the fact that they can’t save everyone no matter how hard they try. I’ve also wondered: Would people mistrust a superhero because they wear a mask? Or would they understand that due to a superheroes obligations they have to conceal their identity?

I’ve never read much into the social issues, but I suspect it would be relatively fertile writing soil. That is, if it doesn’t get bogged down by preachy messages and an overly talkative storyline.

By: The ReTARDISed Whovian

The ReTARDISed Whovian — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:08:51 +0000

Video game characters aren’t generally good examples for authors, but some cut scenes can be good references. Most of the games I’ve played have cut scenes, and sometimes I convert the visual of them moving and talking into little screenplay type things in my head.